[littleharry]

I have a 05 Prius, when i go to push the start button it starts to light up but then it quits. my lights work, my inverter pump works, i do have some fuses that aren't coming on because the ignition is not up yet, my inside lights work. my windows don't work, My radio doesn't work, give me some ideas please, this car was bought at auction it was suppose to run but doesn't i think someone may have tried to jump it off and may have blown something in the process, i also put a reader on it and it want come up enough to run it through diagnosis ?

[bwilson4web]

Good morning!

Ok, there are a lot of things that can cause similar symptoms. One thing about Prius startup, it spins the engine for just under 5 seconds before adding gas and spark and this can 'sound like' it is trying to start.

We need some information:

What is the 12V battery voltage? It is located in the back of the car on one side. I don't have an NHW20 (your model is part of the 2004-09 year.)

Do you access to maintenance manuals for your car? I bought mine from Toyota but they costs over $300 new. They also show up on Ebay (avoid the 'CD' as they are often pirated copies of marginal quality.) Also, I've heard good reports about the Bentley's manual:
http://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Prius-R.../dp/0837615534

I've had the Haynes manual but found it inadequate, avoid it.

One caution about OBD scanners, most of the interesting information is not reported. The standard OBD scanner reads just the emission codes, not the Toyota proprietary ones. However, the ScanGauge II, $150-175, has the ability to add XGAUGE definitions to read some of the Toyota proprietary codes and there is an active community figuring out the Toyota XGAUGEs. For your model, the AutoEnginuity at $500 is less expensive than the Toyota TechStream-Lite, $1,200-1,500.

How are you fixed for tools? I take it this is your first hybrid but have you worked on other cars in the past? Rebuilt and engine or swapped a transaxle?

The Prius is just a car, not magic, but it is a computer operated car and the Toyota codes give us a road map to most problems. There are still a few errors that take more time to figure out BUT this is not rocket science ... just a little different.

Are you anywhere near Huntsville AL? I've been known to 'make house calls.' <grins>

Bob Wilson

[bwilson4web]

Late thought, your car is old enough that it may have a sticky throttle plate:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/pri_throttle.html

This is fairly easy to clean and it causes a similar symptom.

Bob Wilson

[GeorgiaHybrid]

What part of SC are you located in? I don't have the fancy scanners that Bob does (just a Snap-on Modis) but it will read most everything on a hybrid and I get down near the Columbia/Aiken area every now and then....

A few other questions, Do you get a ready light but a no start on the gas engine? You mentioned the windows and radio not working, have you checked the fuses for them? If the fuses are OK, we need to start at a different area. If replacing the fuses gets them working, we have other problem areas to look at.

The reason for those queestions is to try and figure out where in the start cycle the problem begins.

[littleharry]

I may have stated this incorrectly, the ignition will not even come on, it tries to but then kicks out, or to restate the dash lights wont come on because the ignition is not kicking on, i have already put a reader on it and it can;t read the ECM or anything because ignition does not get the power to light up, i have already tested the the Battery and its putting out 12.6 vlts, both fuses are good at the battery, i also have power at the fuse block in the front, I have 18 years experience helping a GM Electronics Tec,(My Father Inlaw) Turning wrenches and testing for shorts or what ever. I do have a Haynes Manuel which you are right is not much help, I need a factory manuel i can already tell., I have most of the tools i need if not i get what is needed,

After thinking about this today, What i am seeing is that when i push the button on the Dash or the start button, it sends power to the ECM to Power up the System so the Computer control system can take over, but in this case when i push the start button it is trying to power up the ECM but it is either got something that is kicking it out or something is blown that is keep it from Power up the ECM. a module or something, Does that sound understandable now
'
I live in Anderson SC, my dad live in Mobile thats beside the point,
if you have a minute my phone # 864-270-0710 call me and ill call you back if need be,

[bwilson4web]

Hi,

littleharry said:

I may have stated this incorrectly, the ignition will not even come on, it tries to but then kicks out, or to restate the dash lights wont come on because the ignition is not kicking on, i have already put a reader on it and it can;t read the ecm or anything because ignition does not get the power to light up, i have already tested the the Battery and its putting out 12.6 vlts, both fuses are good at the battery, i also have power at the fuse block in the front,

Thanks!

Again, I don't have an NHW20 model but our ZVW30 allows me to press the power button twice without pressing on the brake to put it in a ignition on mode. Does your NHW20 have a similar function?

The reason I ask is in this mode, I get all of the error lights and the ECUs are powered up. Using my AutoEnginuity, I can read some of the ECUs without having to worry about the car trying to start.

littleharry said:

. . . I have 18 years experience turning wrenches and testing for shorts or what ever with a GM Electronics tec, I also have a Haynes Manuel I am getting power to the engine junction block, I have most of the tool i need if not i get what is needed,

Sorry, no offense meant. We sometimes have folks post whose understanding of cars and auto systems . . . is a little too basic. I love them for asking but teaching Auto 101 via the net is often not the best way. Nothing personal, just trying to understand if we can talk technical.

littleharry said:

. . .
Ok Once more the Ignition comes on, and the Ecm tell's the engine to come in and out if the main battery is low on power or not, but in the case of this car the main ignition that controls all of that wont come on
'
I live in Anderson SC, my dad live in Mobile thats beside the point,
if you have a minute my phone # 864-270-0710 call me and ill call you back if need be,

You're about 6 hours away from Huntsville which typically means an overnight trip. Sad to say, I have work activities scheduled for the next two weekends. The second activity will be the biggie as it will resolve a long, outstanding technical issue and allow us to retire a third, 'problem' machine.

Would you mind if I shared some of your postings over at the YahooGroup, "Prius_Technical_Stuff." Good Prius Friend Hobbit hangs out there and he is as well informed about the NHW20 as I am about the NHW11. The YahooGroup is 'first post moderated.' There are a couple of good NHW20 folks there too.

Bob Wilson

[bwilson4web]

One of the "Prius_Technical_Stuff" members posted:

Prius_Technical_Stuff said:

That is an immobilizer kicking in. talk to a toyota dealer. Chances are
the keys are screwed up somehow.

Reg (had a similar problem with a Ford Escape Hybrid after some major
changes.)

I hadn't considered that possibility but if they gave you the wrong key or the key is defective . . . OWCH!

Does your remote, keyless entry device work? It too is paired with the immobilizer.

This would be a dealer call as my understanding even the TechStream-Lite does not include the interface needed to re-pair a key to the car.

Bob Wilson

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Try to do as Bob suggested with pushing the start button twice without having your foot on the brake. If you can still not communicate with the ECM, I would be leaning towards a bad ECM unit or bad buss connector. As long as power is on the main system buss, the ECM should be getting power and comunicating via the OBD II port.

Do you have an All Data account that you can access at home or work? I don't turn wrenches for a living anymore but still keep my hand into them a lot and that site will help a pro a LOT. I just have the DIY version with just the cars I own or I would look up your NHW20. As Bob noted, there are some people that come here asking very complicated questions with zero to very little experience working with tools much less a car. This will be nice talking to someone that understands....

I was in Anderson not long ago and my daughter co-op'd there for Bosch Automotive for several semesters. I also have a very good customer in Piedmont which is right next door...Sounds like Bob and I need to get together and have a road trip soon. Do you have a time frame to get this car running? If you have a few weeks, I will see what I can do to get there with our resident rocket scientist....

[littleharry]

Guys this is a lot of help, I don't think Ive got the wrong keys, but i do know one of the battery's may be bad on one key, i will try the start button twice with out the brake and see if the ECM comes on and i can read it, I have found its all way's best to look for the simple stuff first and then the major next, I will be here asking Questions from now on, I have been fascinated by these cars since they came out, this is one of the first times i have run into anything like so far. I have four right now and many to go

[bwilson4web]

When I studied remote keyless entry systems they were based upon an encrypted exchange of counters the car and fob maintained. It is possible (not probable) that replacing the key battery MIGHT return functionality. No guarantees but a cheap enough test.

Bob Wilson