[CoalMiner]

Reading some threads on hybridcar, I learned E10 reduces fuel economy. Or maybe not. So for the very first full up, I want to try some non-E10 gas in my MMH and see.

But I can't locate any non-E10 where I live. Have posted on gasbuddy.com so far. And I thought, if anyone would know, thought those guys would. But no luck so far. I'm looking in the eastern Phila suburbs, and to expand the search area, anywhere in southeastern PA. Any ideas how to locate this, short of stopping in every station I go past in normal travels?

[centrider]

Hmm. Can you even find non E10 in a state where it's mandated? I think, for example the EPA has mandated its use to prevent (smog?). Isn't it that the refineries add it to their gas. So, I guess your asking if for example Esso has E10 pumps/stations and non E10.

Don't know.

[CoalMiner]

I've read about some stations where all the pumps are non-E10. Evidently the people who own or run the stations consider themselves holdouts, and they have some sense of pride in still offering the non-E10.

But your point about the EPA mandating its use might be the reason I can't find it.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Some states have mandated the use of ethanol. In addition to that, some states do NOT require that a pump selling ethanol be labeled as such. Some like Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama require a label at 1.5% or more.

Here in Georgia you CAN find a few stations that are still selling gas and they usually advertise that with signs out front. In addition to hybrid drivers trying to get better mileage, small engine owners are trying to stay with straight gas to prevent problems with their fuel systems.

[centrider]

GeorgiaHybrid said:

Some states have mandated the use of ethanol. In addition to that, some states do NOT require that a pump selling ethanol be labeled as such. Some like Georgia, Tennessee and Alabama require a label at 1.5% or more.

Here in Georgia you CAN find a few stations that are still selling gas and they usually advertise that with signs out front. In addition to hybrid drivers trying to get better mileage, small engine owners are trying to stay with straight gas to prevent problems with their fuel systems.

Both Calif and Az seem to have it also. It may not be in Premium, however.

[justbob30]

Wa. is all e-10 :-(.

[centrider]

justbob30 said:

Wa. is all e-10 :-(.

My guess is that all the major corn producing states are also E10 mandates. Calif. seems to use it seasonally. Unfortunately I can't remember which season it's in and when it is out. Or I may be completely wrong.

[centrider]

"In late September, oil refining giant Tesoro Corp. filed an action in Superior Court in Sacramento, Calif., seeking to invalidate and stay enforcement of the California Air Resources Board’s recent adoption of regulations that require refiners to increase the amount of ethanol in California gasoline.

At issue in the litigation is CARB’s adoption of amendments to the California Reformulated Gasoline Regulations. The new CaRFGs will require refiners to increase the amount of ethanol in California gasoline from the current level of 5.7 percent to 10 percent by Dec. 31, 2009.

In its petition, Tesoro makes essentially two claims. First, the company argues that in adopting any changes to CaRFG regulations, CARB must first assume that any new amendments “maintain or improve upon emissions and air quality benefits” achieved by previous CaRFG regulations. In adopting the new regulations, Tesoro argues that CARB failed to follow this standard because the additional ethanol blending required by the new amendments will result in additional ethanol production, presumably causing increased greenhouse gas emissions. As evidence that increased ethanol production will lead to negative greenhouse gas impacts, Tesoro cites as authority the same Searchinger study reported in the March 2008 Time article.

Tesoro further alleges that CARB also failed to evaluate the cost that the amendments will visit upon refiners and California consumers. Under separate provisions of California law, before CARB can adopt or amend any standard relating to motor-vehicle fuel specifications, CARB must determine the cost-effectiveness of the new standard. Previously, CARB had estimated it would cost $200 million to $400 million in capital improvements to make the refinery modifications required to bring gasoline into compliance with the new regulations.

Citing a report from the California Energy Commission, Tesoro alleges that the estimated cost to consumers and businesses of the CaRFG amendments will be 4.2 to 5.6 cents per gallon, or $716 million to $1.1 billion per year."

California Courts Reconsider Ethanol-Related Greenhouse Gas Issues

By Todd J. Guerrero, Ethanol Producer Magazine: http://www.ethanolproducer.com/artic...rticle_id=5004

[CoalMiner]

I'm still searching for a tankful. In SE PA.

[centrider]

CoalMiner said:

I'm still searching for a tankful. In SE PA.

I see. A long way to drive for what may be E5 gas. Good luck.

Remind me to bypass Pa.